ศาลาชุมนุม

[Tgeezer]

I thank everyone who has replied to my post.

It seems that as with many things, it's never as straightforward as you might hope.

Tgeezer, you said that the official translation of มาแล้ว means "ago". As you say, it can be used in different contexts. To me, it's usually used to mean "already".
The phrase เขาทำนานมาแล้ว - "he made it a long time ago", would sound more natural to me as just เขาทำนานแล้ว but I am willing to stand (well sit) corrected on that.

Well what sounds natural is what you learn is natural.

Someone must think that มาแล้ว is natural because it came straight from the dictionary but did you notice that it said how มา 'come' shows a past event then in the example used มาแล้ว ? มา coming from a time (of a verb) แล้ว finished (of a verb).

Pirin's ที่แล้ว I expected to find in my E-T dictionary, meaning a specific time in the past. Practically speaking if a verb is done then แล้ว covers it.
Practically speaking ทำแล้วสองปี 'make finish two years' means two things; that it happened two years ago and that it has existed for two years.
Taking Thomas' example 'marry', you can say either We have been married two years or We got married two years ago, they mean the same.

But this thread is how to make Thai imitate English and I think that it is straight forward. You asked for ten years ago, the word you want is 'ago' and rather than write อาโก collaboration between native speakers of the respective languages decided how to express it in Thai; มาแล้ว or ที่แล้ว placed after the time phrase. It is no more easy to explain than 'ago', which is just as it should be I think.

[David and Bui]

Tgeezer,

"Taking Thomas' example 'marry', you can say either We have been married two years or We got married two years ago, they mean the same. "

Let me offer an bit of a different perspective. I think that "We have been married two years" means that the marriage has continued over a two year period, where as "We got married two years ago" implies that the wedding occurred two years ago.

I think that the Thai word "แดงงาน" implies both the state of marriage and the wedding event.

What do you think?

[Tgeezer]

Tgeezer,

"Taking Thomas' example 'marry', you can say either We have been married two years or We got married two years ago, they mean the same. "

Let me offer an bit of a different perspective. I think that "We have been married two years" means that the marriage has continued over a two year period, where as "We got married two years ago" implies that the wedding occurred two years ago.

I think that the Thai word "แดงงาน" implies both the state of marriage and the wedding event.

What do you think?

You're right of course, I think the same, however it is expressed more simply in Thai.

เราแต่งงานสองปีมาแล้ว
Without a divorce, and that can't be assumed, เรา means 'my wife and I'.

Edit: I will expand on that. How you express the facts obtaining depend on context. You want to tell someone when the marriage took place perhaps because that time is relevant; you want to tell someone how long you have been married because the length of time is relevant. The facts are the same. It is the facts that interest me when dealing with 'snippets' such as this, because I can't possibly know the context. My Thai is therefore somewhat limited, I wonder that if you wanted to tell the whole story in Thai you wouldn't start with the English 'snippet'.
The question 'how do you say this in Thai' perhaps could be answered with 'you don't, you say this, and for this reason'.

[Tgeezer]

My last observation reminds me of the question to an Irishman: How do I get to London, he answered "Sure, if I were going to London I wouldn't start from here"

[Pirin]

Tgeezer,

"Taking Thomas' example 'marry', you can say either We have been married two years or We got married two years ago, they mean the same. "

Let me offer an bit of a different perspective. I think that "We have been married for two years" means that the marriage has continued over a two year period, where as "We got married two years ago" implies that the wedding occurred two years ago.

I think that the Thai word "แดงงาน" implies both the state of marriage and the wedding event.

What do you think?

1. .....เมื่อ.....ที่แล้ว/ที่ผ่านมา
"We got married two years ago"
=>
เราแต่งงานเมื่อสองปีที่แล้ว/ที่ผ่านมา

2. .....มาได้/เป็นเวลา.....แล้ว
"We have been married for two years"
=>
เราแต่งงานมาได้สองปีแล้ว

[Thomas]

I think that the Thai word "แดงงาน" implies both the state of marriage and the wedding event.
What do you think?

I think that แดงงาน looks like a rather classical Germanic umlautung of แต่งงาน, i.e. a change within the stem. Thus, either the plural or the diminutive of แต่งงาน?!

But แต่งงาน is กริยา. Thus, to marry a little bit? Like in 'to be a little bit pregnant'?

[Tgeezer]

I think that the Thai word "แดงงาน" implies both the state of marriage and the wedding event.
What do you think?

I think that แดงงาน looks like a rather classical Germanic umlautung of แต่งงาน, i.e. a change within the stem. Thus, either the plural or the diminutive of แต่งงาน?!

But แต่งงาน is กริยา. Thus, to marry a little bit? Like in 'to be a little bit pregnant'?

The issue I think Thomas is whether แต่งงาน to marry can be used as the adjective married. Naturally if you say แต่งานแล้ว it means that the ceremony is over and you are married.
Not a problem when you want to translate 'We married two years ago'. Once you are satisfied that everyone will understand that whatever you use to replace 'ago' ที่แล้ว ผ่านไปแล้ว ผ่านมาแล้ว มาแล้ว etc.
But: "We have been married two years". Now we need to make the verb an adjective.
The combination 'Marry two year' is simple, can anyone imagine any other meaning than the ceremony took place two years ago or the state of marriage has existed for two years,?


"Marry two year": We marry two year> We be marry two year > We have marry two year> We have been marry two year> We have been married two year> We have been married two years. Five embellishments which Thai has to try to express.

I am not trying to remove all the embellishments from Thai but simply to see them for what they are. It is a more basic stage of language, starting at the beginning rather than staring in the middle of the process. If we want to be state that we have been married for a period of two years. The word for married might be ร่วมอยู่เป็นสามีภรรยา in Thai for all we know, I don't know because I am learning how to say 'married' in Thai!

[Thomas]

The issue I think Thomas is whether แต่งงาน to marry can be used as the adjective married. Naturally if you say แต่งานแล้ว it means that the ceremony is over and you are married.

Tgeeezer, in the case that I've to answer seriously to your post, I cannot avoid but have to point first on the fact that I'm German native and I have serious problems to understand English at certain points, e.g. why to say 'to get married', or the correction of my non-English sentence by Richard via "We have been married for two years." Stupid question: The latter sentence by Richard is in the passive voice? And if so, why? The German counterpart of to marry, heiraten, describes an active doing. I've no clue how to form a German sentence with 'heiraten' in the passive. To translate Richards sentence into German I've to switch in German the verb (heiraten, verheiraten).

To underline my problems:

My last observation reminds me of the question to an Irishman: How do I get to London, he answered "Sure, if I were going to London I wouldn't start from here"

I quess this is a wonderful pun (I asked: Could you tell me what time it is? He answered: "I could!") but I'm no expert both of English and Irish grammar. Could you expand a little bit on this pun (?) because I've serious problems to understand why 'We get married.' is 'Wir heiraten.' in German.

[Tgeezer]

The issue I think Thomas is whether แต่งงาน to marry can be used as the adjective married. Naturally if you say แต่งานแล้ว it means that the ceremony is over and you are married.

Tgeeezer, in the case that I've to answer seriously to your post, I cannot avoid but have to point first on the fact that I'm German native and I have serious problems to understand English at certain points, e.g. why to say 'to get married', or the correction of my non-English sentence by Richard via "We have been married for two years." Stupid question: The latter sentence by Richard is in the passive voice? And if so, why? The German counterpart of to marry, heiraten, describes an active doing. I've no clue how to form a German sentence with 'heiraten' in the passive. To translate Richards sentence into German I've to switch in German the verb (heiraten, verheiraten).

To underline my problems:

My last observation reminds me of the question to an Irishman: How do I get to London, he answered "Sure, if I were going to London I wouldn't start from here"

I quess this is a wonderful pun (I asked: Could you tell me what time it is? He answered: "I could!") but I'm no expert both of English and Irish grammar. Could you expand a little bit on this pun (?) because I've serious problems to understand why 'We get married.' is 'Wir heiraten.' in German.

I can't possibly comment on German, the topic is translating English. You are not alone English is not understandable.
It is possible to be the object of 'to marry' The bishop of Gloster married us.
We are just going round in circles, as I've explained if you say แต่งงานสองปี you will be understood, I tried it with my caddy today. He did tell me what it meant: ได้แต่งงานสองปีมาแล้ว which must make one wonder why what he said made it any more clear.
One mustn't be too serious about this sort of thing; I heard an interviewer on the BBC today say "try to" today. I believe that is a 'first' because I have heard nothing but 'try and' for years; I look forward to many more 'try to'.

I don't think the Irishman was making a pun, he was simply being Irish. Like language travelling can be easy or difficult to explain depending where you start.

[Thomas]

It is possible to be the object of 'to marry' The bishop of Gloster married us.

พระบิชอปของกลอสเตอร์แต่งงานกับเรา
Der Bischof von Gloster heiratete uns.

That's my German problem with the English term 'to marry'. (At least) the German sentence means: You two and the bishop are now husband and wife in three (3), a couple (3), seemingly the three (3) parents of the later patch work family.

I hope using Thai my problem with the English term 'to marry' becomes slightly clearer?