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Question about เป็น in this sentence

The structure of Thai sentences

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Re: Question about เป็น in this sentence

Postby jariya76 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:06 am

นักเรียนเดินเป็นหมอ
Help! I don't get it...
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Re: Question about เป็น in this sentence

Postby R.E.G. » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:35 am

jariya76 wrote:นักเรียนเดินเป็นหมอ
Help! I don't get it...

ditto. perhaps: นักเรียนเดิน + นักเรียนเป็นหมอ = นักเรียนที่เดินเป็นหมอ
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Re: Question about เป็น in this sentence

Postby Thomas » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:47 am

R.E.G. wrote:
jariya76 wrote:นักเรียนเดินเป็นหมอ
Help! I don't get it...

ditto. perhaps: นักเรียนเดิน + นักเรียนเป็นหมอ = นักเรียนที่เดินเป็นหมอ


Thanks as well as sorry. My question could be interpreted as rude...

What I did mean ... I can recall a sentence such as "He studied much so that he is now doctor." The last part of the sentence was ...เป็นหมอ. Unfortunately I cannot find the sample sentence but it may have been a sentence of the structure outlined by khun R.E.G., thus with ที่ (and เดิน replaced by a more meaningful verb).

Edit: To bring, what concerns me and what caused to post another post in reply to Ricahrd, to the point:

In the sample sentence of jariya76

พูดเป็นเสียงดัง

pen would be, as said by jariya76 'in', so he/she does not speak "in order to be" (with the scope) but simply in/at loud voice. If so, my interpretation of pen was up to now ... simply wrong. In this case I should say thank you very much for this clarification since I did interprete it wrong in the past.
Last edited by Thomas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question about เป็น in this sentence

Postby buckjoy » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:20 am

Josh,
Having had the pleasure of going through the Manee series, I asked many of the same sort of questions that you've asked. Sometimes I nitpicked every word to try and know it's exact meaning and grammatical place in the sentence (probably a result of my Catholic school upbringing with diagramming sentences).

In the end, I realize that the more Thai I read, the more I understand how words fit together. While I'm still a beginner, I'm slowly becoming familiar with the patterns that Thais use in their sentences, yet I can't explain the grammatical rules that explain them. Nor can I recite the Thai alphabet, yet I know the sounds each letter makes.

I'll bet you never asked your parents grammatical questions when they read Jack and the Beanstalk to you as a child. Nor did you likely ask if the name "Pinocchio" was derived from the Italian words pino and occhio (like the minutia of Pali/Sanskrit derivatives for early readers of Thai).

I'm not trying to suppress your inquisitiveness......just want to add a few words of wisdom from another person who 'grew up' with the Manee series. Good luck on your Thai studies.
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Re: Question about เป็น in this sentence

Postby Josh » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:06 pm

buckjoy,

Thanks for your comments. You are correct, and I'm most likely getting in my own way; I should probably just go with the flow more.

Last night was a perfect example of what you mean. I came across the sentence จริงไม้มีใครเป็นอะไร (I'm 99,9% sure that's what it was) and had no clue how to translate it. My wife told me it means something to the effect of "So, nobody got hurt."

WTF?

I just went with it because the literal translation did not make sense to me at all.

:roll:
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Re: Question about เป็น in this sentence

Postby Peter4 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:45 pm

pi_choen wrote:i can not swimm
ผมว่ายน้ำไม่เป็น
i can not drive car
ผมขับรถไม่เป็น

Thank you, Choen, for bringing up another, very common meaning for เป็น -- to know how to do something.

I hear that usage far more often than the primary dictionary entry, "to be".
Because it is so common, it is worth considering in answer to Josh's OP.

เป็น is often used in ways that don't fit what we English-speakers expect for the verb, "to be".
If you ask a Thai, "Can you speak English?", the answer will often be, simply, ไม่เป็น, "[I] don't know how."
If asked, "Do you know how to cook fried rice?", the answer is likely to be just the one word, เป็น, "[I] know how".

Using เป็น as "knowing how to do something", is more common in the Thai I hear, than the meaning "to be".
However, it doesn't fit the context of that sentence in the OP.
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Re: Question about เป็น in this sentence

Postby Richard Wordingham » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:56 pm

Josh wrote:I came across the sentence จริงไม้มีใครเป็นอะไร (I'm 99,9% sure that's what it was) and had no clue how to translate it. My wife told me it means something to the effect of "So, nobody got hurt."

จริง = truly
ไม้มี = 'not have' i.e. there is not / there was not
ใคร = anyone
เป็น = suffer(ing) (e.g. เป็นหวัด = have a cold)
อะไร = anything
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Re: Question about เป็น in this sentence

Postby Josh » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:55 pm

Richard, thank you! I completely forgot that เป็น can also refer to sickness/suffering.

You guys continue to amaze me!
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Re: Question about เป็น in this sentence

Postby Nan » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:53 am

jariya76 wrote:These all seem to point to เป็น as meaning "in" or "so that something is in the shape, form, or manner of _______"


This is what I have in mind too.

นักเรียนเดินเป็นแถว - เป็นแถว functions as an adverb to modify เดิน.

Other words with เป็น in front of a noun but funcion as an adverb;

เป็นกระบวน - in a procession.

เป็นก้อน - in lump.

เป็นเกลียว - in a twisting.

เป็นกอง - in great quantities.

เป็นชั้น ๆ - in layers, in ranks.

เป็นเครื่องตอบแทน - in return as reciprocation.

เป็นทอด ๆ - in stages.

เป็นน้ำ - fluently.

jariya76 wrote:พูดเป็นเสียงดัง


This example doesen't make sense to me. it should be พูดเสียงดัง without เป็น.
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Re: Question about เป็น in this sentence

Postby jariya76 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:32 am

Nan - Thanks for the correction. Then how would one say to "read out loud" as opposed to "read to oneself" Julie
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