ศาลาชุมนุม

[indian]

Hi, just a question: why is the tone for the second syllable มุทร (moot)- low, when actually it should be high
(since ม is low class consonant and มุทร is a dead syllable containing a short vowel)

สมุทร = sa (L) moot(L)

Please help

Thanks

[mangkorn]

Non-conforming cluster. When the first syllable does not have a written vowel, the first consonant determines the tone of both syllables.

[tod-daniels]

mangkorn is correct!
It is one of those "non-conforming consonant cluster" pronunciation dealyz.. Explained on this page;
http://www.thai-language.com/ref/cluster-tone
In fact it's listed in there as well..
The phonemic thai pronunciation of สมุทร shows สะ-หฺมุด with a silent ห to make the second syllable be a low tone. I also found it in this word สนอบ which (if you tone it without taking into consideration it's non-conforming would be low-falling) but the phonemic thai shows สะ-หฺนอบ as its pronunciation..

Good question, good luck..

[indian]

@ mangkorn @ tod-daniels

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. I understood it well.

I found yet another link later at this website ( Enepenthetic ‘Leading Consonant’ Clusters category)

http://www.thai-language.com/id/830222

Thanks for the help

[insayt]

Hi!

So why does this word ขโมย not apply to that rule?

Peter

[David and Bui]

Hi!

So why does this word ขโมย not apply to that rule?

Peter

ฺBecause the first consonant is placed to the left of the vowel so as to break the cluster. Were the word written "โขมย" the second syllable would have a rising tone.

For examples see the words โขมง at http://www.thai-language.com/id/24573 and โขมด at http://www.thai-language.com/id/13325 where the tone of the syllable is dictated by the first consonant.

[insayt]

Hi!

So why does this word ขโมย not apply to that rule?

Peter

ฺBecause the first consonant is placed to the left of the vowel so as to break the cluster. Were the word written "โขมย" the second syllable would have a rising tone.

For examples see the words โขมง at http://www.thai-language.com/id/24573 and โขมด at http://www.thai-language.com/id/13325 where the tone of the syllable is dictated by the first consonant.

Okay I see. Thank you David!

Peter