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น้ำท่วม

Religion, customs, politics, film, music, television

Moderator: acloudmovingby

น้ำท่วม

Postby David and Bui » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:32 pm

Friends,

This topic is being discussed on the ThaiVisa web-board. Here is the news story in Thai with my translation:
_______________________________________________

ผู้สื่อข่าวรายงานว่า นายปลอดประสพ สุรัสวดี รมว.วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี กล่าวว่า
Newsmen report that Mr. Plotprasop Suratwadee, Minister of Science and Technology, has announced that:

รัฐบาลอยากขอความร่วมมือจากประชาชนที่มีเรือติดเครื่องยนต์ให้ช่วยกันเปิดเครื่องยนต์เรือในทุกพื้นที่ที่เกิดอุทกภัย
The government is requesting cooperation from all those who have motor-driven boats to provide assistance by turning on the engines of their boats in all flooded areas . . .

เพื่อผลักดันน้ำจากแม่น้ำเจ้าพระยาออกสู่ทะเล
. . . to push Chao Phraya River water out to the ocean.

โดยโครงการนี้อยู่ภายใต้ชื่อโครงการประชาอาสาโดยรัฐบาลพร้อมจะให้การสนับสนุนเรื่องน้ำมันเชื้อเพลิงและค่าใช้จ่ายที่เกิดขึ้น
This program is being operated under the name, “People’s Voluntary Program”.

โดยรัฐบาลพร้อมจะให้การสนับสนุนเรื่องน้ำมันเชื้อเพลิงและค่าใช้จ่ายที่เกิดขึ้น
The government is prepared to provide assistance in the form of gasoline and other fuels, as well as other expenses you might incur.

ทั้งนี้ เสนอวิธีการ คือ ให้หันหัวเรือไปทางทิศเหนือ และควรทำในช่วงที่น้ำลง
The methodology being proposed is that the bow of the boats should be turned upstream, to the North and you should engage in this project during low tide . . .

โดยอยากขอความร่วมมือ 10 วันนับจากนี้ก่อนที่น้ำทะเลจะหนุนสูงสุดอีกครั้ง
. . ., that is, the government is requesting cooperation during the ten-day period from today, before the level of the ocean rises again.

ผู้ที่อยากจะร่วมมือแต่มีความสงสัยหรือติดขัดประการใด สามารถติดต่อมายังรัฐบาลผ่านกระทรวงต่างๆ หรือตัวผมก็ได้
“Those of you who wish to participate but still have some questions or problems, you can contact any of the government ministries or you can contact me directly.

ขณะเดียวกัน หากการดำเนินการดังกล่าวเห็นผล ปริมาณน้ำลดลง
Moreover, if we see that this program produces positive results and the water levels do decline . . .

ก็จำเป็นต้องมีการพูดคุยหารือกันเรื่องการบริหารจัดการเครื่องมือที่จะควบคุมน้ำทั้งระบบด้วย
. . . then, it is important that we discuss and consult with each other regarding the management of other tools and techniques which can be used to control the water throughout the system as well.

เราต้องช่วยกันรักษาชีวิตและทรัพย์สินของประชาชน
We are very keen to provide assistance in saving our people’s lives and property.

เราทำทุกอย่างแต่ยังไม่เพียงพอ
We are doing everything [possible] but [these things] are not yet sufficient.

จึงขอโอกาสร่วมกันสักครั้ง ซึ่งเป็นโอกาสในการสร้างความสามัคคี
Therefore, we are taking this opportunity [to ask for your] cooperation this one time; this is a good opportunity to help build unity [in our community].

ท่านที่มีเรือจอดหน้าบ้าน ช่วยกันเดินเครื่องผันน้ำลงไปทางใต้ ดันน้ำออกสู่ทะเลให้ได้"
Those of you with [motor] boats in front of your homes, please help us run your engines to push the [river] water toward the South and the ocean."
____________________________________________

Any thoughts?
David in Houston
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Re: น้ำท่วม

Postby Rick Bradford » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:05 am

David,

I think you have got it pretty much pat -- the suggestions I have are mainly for cleaning up the English a bit:

1) Cut the second part of the Thai in par 4 -- you repeat it in par 5
2) "Motor-driven boats"? Motorboats? Motorised boats?
3) Par 3 & final par: 'ocean' may be a bit generous to the Gulf of Thailand. 'Sea'?
4) I'm glad to see you have the same trouble translating โดย at the beginning of sentences as I do.....
5) Par 5: '...you might incur.' could be 'other expenses that arise' or 'other related expenses'?
6) Par 7: หนุนสูงสุดอีกครั้ง -- is there a suggestion of a peak being reached in there 'until the [next] high tide is reached'?'
7) Par 10: how about "...if we see that this program produces positive results in reducing water levels..."

Rick.
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Re: น้ำท่วม

Postby David and Bui » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:59 pm

Thank you very much, Rick, for your comments and corrections.
_____________________________________________
ทั้งนี้ เสนอวิธีการ คือ ให้หันหัวเรือไปทางทิศเหนือ และควรทำในช่วงที่น้ำลง
The methodology being proposed is that the bow of the boats should be turned upstream, to the North and you should engage in this project during low tide . . .

โดยอยากขอความร่วมมือ 10 วันนับจากนี้ก่อนที่น้ำทะเลจะหนุนสูงสุดอีกครั้ง
. . ., that is, the government is requesting cooperation during the ten-day period from today, before the level of the ocean rises again.
_____________________________________________
Rick Bradford wrote: 6) Par 7: หนุนสูงสุดอีกครั้ง -- is there a suggestion of a peak being reached in there 'until the [next] high tide is reached'?'


It is interesting that the focus of the Ministry seems to be on the sea level, rather than on peak water flow of the river: "ช่วงที่น้ำลง" and "น้ำทะเลจะหนุนสูงสุดอีกครั้ง ". I don't understand the hydrology.

We had a party at our home last evening with about 25 Thai friends, several of whom were engineers of various technical specialties (none of which was hydrology, however). Nevertheless, they held almost a unanimous opinion that the amount of motive force necessary to move a sufficient amount of water to keep Bangkok from flooding using the "motorboat" method was to great to do much good.

I wonder to what extent the authorities will be willing to apply this method to lessen the chances for flooding in the Bangkok area.

Thanks again for your corrections and suggestions.
David in Houston
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Re: น้ำท่วม

Postby mikenyork » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:21 pm

In part this methodology was adopted at the suggestion of His Majesty the King. There was (at least before it became clear that it was the King's suggestion) substantial disagreement as to its efficacy. In situations like this people in positions of public responsibility often feel the need to be seen to be doing SOMETHING, even if its overall effectiveness is marginal. I don't think it will do any harm. How much good it will do is pretty unclear.

The latest from Thai-Visa.com blurb quoted the Minister of Agriculture as saying that the worst was over. And someone from the government is on TV even as I write this saying that the high water point has been passed.

The last time this happened at this level was, as I understand it, 1943. Therefore, there has never been a flood of this magnitude in the modern, industrialized era. It's not yet known really what the extent of damage to the industrial base in Ayudhaya and north of Bangkok generally has been. Several hundred thousand (maybe as many as half a million) people are employed in several hundred factories, most of which are under water. I think that as the news becomes clearer on the extent of damage, the estimates of economic losses are likely to go up, not down. It's going to be interesting to see if this galvanizes the Thai government to finally undertake a national water management plan (I'd bet against anything real happening because it would screw up too many little empires and sinecures). It's crystal clear that many things could have been done to have prepared better for this crisis. Canals should have been dredged. Levies should have been checked and strengthened. The catchment and release of water from upcountry dams should have been coordinated so that all the dam managers from several different agencies didn't all wait until the dams for which they were responsible were at 100% capacity before simultaneously releasing unprecedented amounts of water. And so forth. Washing dirty laundry in public is not, to put it mildly, one of this culture's great strengths. It will be interesting to see if anything constructive comes out of what has been, for hundreds of thousands of people, a great tragedy. It will also be interesting to see whether the Pheu Thai Party loses any ground in the central province over this.
If you've been in Thailand a short time and feel that you only understand a little about the place, just stick around. When you've been here longer, you'll understand less.
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Re: น้ำท่วม

Postby David and Bui » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:51 pm

From the news:

เขตเมืองส่วนใหญ่ น้ำไม่ท่วม แต่เขตเกษตรกรรมส่วนมาก ต้องถูกน้ำท่วม นักวิชาการ มช. จึงวิเคราะห์ถึงความเป็นไปได้ที่คนเมืองกับชาวนาจะทะเลาะเบาะแว้งและไม่พอใจซึ่งกันและกัน

"The urban areas have not been flooded, but the majority of agricultural areas have experienced major flooding. Academics from Chiang Mai University have analyzed the possibility that urban dwellers and farmers would clash with each other."

Mike, do you perceive that due to the strong agricultural support for the current government, that the issue of climate change and potentially increased damage to agricultural lands from future flooding would encourage the political establishment to face these problems sooner rather than later?

See http://www.agrimoney.com/news/thai-floo ... -3698.html regarding the potential rise in world prices of rice. Since the Thai government had already stockpiled a large amount of rice purchased from farmers, it is unlikely that the farmers themselves would see any benefits from increased world prices for rice.
David in Houston
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