ศาลาชุมนุม

[Joseph Akriche]

I would like to live in thailand,but beeing old and single ,i need to know what should be the best arrangement for me,or in other word:is there any house for old farangs or the only alternative is a serviced appartment.any information will be helpful.

[Peter4]

Thailand is a perfect location for retirement living for an old, single, white man.
I'm 60's, and have been in Thailand 5 years.
Not every day is perfect, and there is some culture shock to get used to, but, overall, I don't know any place better than this for retirement living.
(However, for non-whites or females, that's a different story, with some problems, but that's not the topic here.)

As for places to live here, there are many options, depending on how much you want to be taken care of, how self-sufficient you are, and how much you can afford.
Where I live -- in the Northern city of Chiangmai -- there are at least two "retirement villages" for seniors.
However, both are located outside the central city; not very convenient.
I think there are better options.

The best option I've found is to rent a "serviced apartment", and then hire Thai staff for additional services.
A serviced apartment is completely ready to move in: fully furnished, sheets & towels, TV, microwave and fridge, etc.
Internet and telephone already connected, so no effort on your part for that.
Electric and water included, although there is an extra charge for electric.
Laundry service is available -- extra charge: I just take my laundry basket to the office, and two days later the clean clothes are delivered right to my door; washed, ironed and neatly folded.

Depending on the level, a serviced apartment may also include pots, pan, dishes, etc.
So, just bring your clothes and toothbrush.
Some serviced apartments even provide a toothbrush.

The building provides maid service who will dust, clean the kitchen and bathroom, sweep the balcony, change bed linens, bring fresh towels, etc.
If I've left any dirty dishes in the sink, the maids will wash those, too.

Serviced apartments come in a wide variety of price ranges and level of services.
In the range of US$ 1,000-2,000 / month, you can live very comfortably in a modern, clean, building, with very good services and good security.
Of course, older, more basic, furnished apartments, with minimum services, are available for less.

In addition, I have hired an "errand girl" for one day a week.
I give her a list of things I want, and she jumps on her motorcycle and does the errands around town.
Turns out she's a good cook, too, so I've expanded her duties to preparing food -- which she then portions out into plastic containers to put into the freezer.
For this I pay her US$ 3.50 per hour, which is outrageously high for this area.
Normally $2/hour would be plenty.

I've also hired a massage lady to come in one day a week for a two-hour massage.
It's not necessary to hire someone for a massage, as massage shops are everywhere around here, but I like the convenience and privacy of that in my own apartment.

I've decided to NOT buy a car or motorcycle; not even a bicycle.
Thai drivers are too crazy, and I simply don't want the risks of driving myself.
So, when I first arrived, I did some exploring among the various taxi services here, and have found several drivers that I like.
Now, when I need a car and driver, just a phone call.
I don't worry about car maintenance or repairs, insurance, license and registration, or any of that.
And I don't worry about snow tires, either!

As for cost of living, here in Thailand, I live a similar life style to what I had back home before arriving here: similar apartment, similar class of neighborhood, similar entertainment, restaurants, shopping, etc.
My expenses in Thailand are about 2/3 of what I spent back home.

I hope my comments will be of use to any retired man considering moving to Thailand.
If I can be of any more help, you are welcome to ask, either here on the public forum, or in a private message to me.

[David and Bui]

Peter,

Without getting too personal, I think it would be helpful for those contemplating retirement in Thailand to know how much it costs, overall, to live in Chiangmai under the circumstances you describe. How much does the cost of living depend on how you choose to live, that is, as you would back home or as you adapt to a more Thai life style?

Also, do you study Thai language in Chiangmai and for you how helpful would it be to learn the language?

Thanks for your insights and presentation of the alternatives.

[Peter4]

it would be helpful for those contemplating retirement in Thailand to know how much it costs ... How much does the cost of living depend on how you choose to live, that is, as you would back home or as you adapt to a more Thai life style? Also, do you study Thai language in Chiangmai and for you how helpful would it be to learn the language?

I hope others who are living in Thailand will also add their observations.

Here in Thailand, I live far better than the average Thai, but nothing like the "hi-so" Thais.
I've looked at the typical Thai life-style.
I don't want it, even if it would save a lot of money.
I prefer such things as air-conditioning and window screens, a refrigerator and a micro-wave, going to the dentist regularly, and eating clean, good quality, food.
I like warm showers, rather than cold.
And I definitely prefer a toilet to sit on, rather than squat over.
Comforts such as those are available to any Thai who can afford them, but most can't, and even those who can, don't seem much interested.

There are some differences for me:
For example, back in North America I owned a car; here I don't want to have a car or a motorcycle.
Back there I didn't travel much; but here I've traveled to Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, etc.

In Thailand, living in Bangkok is the most expensive, up-country is the cheapest, Chiangmai is in-between.
Here in Chiangmai I estimate the dividing line between "modest comfort" and "starting to struggle" to be
around US $1,000 per month.
Less than that and the living becomes far less comfortable: possible, certainly, but not so comfortable.
When someone contacts me with questions about living in Thailand, I always ask his monthly spending limit.
It it is under US 1,000/month, I know life will be difficult here, especially for the first few years trying to adopt to an alien culture.
I don't want that kind of aggravation, so I'm happy to spend the money.

As for the language, I've found it essential for three reasons:

• Without understanding, you are dependent on someone else for most everything
• Without understanding, you are mostly limited to the "farang" areas, which are, in my opinion, the least desirable areas in which to live.
• From talking with other expats and from reading on Internet forums, I've observed that those who have the most problems here are the ones who don't know the language. Those with only normal problems of living anywhere, are those with some command of the language.

But most men who retire here handle it in the lazy way:
As soon as possible after arrival, they find a Thai woman who is available to be a care-taker.
They move her in to the house or condo, and she handles all the details of their lives, while the expat plays golf, watches TV, and drinks beer.
That is the life of many, but not for me.

I hope other expats here will join in with their experiences.

[Joseph Akriche]

Hi,
Quote: "What should be the best arrangement for me"
I am a little bit older than you (82 ! ) and i am mostly concerned (as a single) in case of beeing ill .. my question is: if the "serviced appartment staff " is willing to carry this duty of ...taking care.
Another quote:There are at least two "retirement villages" for seniors "
Their origine ? English speaking or others...and where exactly are these villages ?
If i do understand,2000 or 3000 $ are quite enough,isn't it ?
And finally : All i do when at bkk is wandering from one mall to the other ,thus the problem of occupation is very crucial.What do you think ?
By the way:forgive my poor english,i speak rather hebrew-israel-
Thank you for your help:joseph akriche.
PS:By the way ,in addition to this marvellous site =thai-language.com-I found many internet sites and "you tube" to learn thai language which is as you may know " very difficult"

[Peter4]

mostly concerned (as a single) in case of beeing ill .. my question is: if the "serviced appartment staff " is willing to carry this duty of ...taking care.

Joseph -

Happy to discuss details about retirement living in Thailand with you.
And others reading this forum are welcome to join in, too.

The English phrase for taking care of elderly people is, "assisted living".
Assisted living offers more than a serviced apartment -- more services and higher level of care.
Like you, I am thinking about this, too.

I'll start with more information about serviced apartments, and then, below, assisted living.
Please note: I'm not in this business, and I don't sell any services along these lines.

I've been living in serviced apartments since I retired.
The benefit of a serviced apartment is that you can start with just basic services such as maid service, laundry service, washing dishes, etc.
But in other ways, too, serviced apartments are used to helping tenants.
For example, if you need a taxi to go shopping or to the doctor's office, the serviced apartment will call for you, and will instruct the driver where you want to go.
That's an essential service in a foreign country where taxi drivers don't speak your language.

In addition, maids can do errands for you, after their regular working hours.
Or personal tasks, like sewing on buttons.
Of course, you'll pay them extra, but they are usually eager for extra income.
I've learned that having a few good maids has been far better than having a wife.
And cheaper, too!

When you need more than casual help like that, you can hire specialists.
Do that yourself or call the apartment office, and the manager will come to discuss with you.
Again, they are used to helping tenants.
For example: you might need a physical therapist or a private duty nurse.
The manager can recommend a service for that.
And he will notify the reception desk that you are expecting a home care nurse.
Then staff will escort the nurse to your door, in case getting around is difficult for you.

Note that in Thailand you can also find this sort of living at many hotels.
Here there is not a clear line between serviced apartments and hotels.
Most hotels offer apartments for monthly, long stay.
Some serviced apartments offer rooms for short stays of a few nights.

Some serviced apartments specifically cater to the elderly.
Here is one example of that: Chiangmai Garden Hotel
http://www.chiangmaigardenhotel.com/longstay.htm
There are probably others here, but I haven't done a thorough search.

But, I must give you this warning:
You can not get an accurate impression of apartments or hotels just by looking at web sites.
On the Internet, they all look great -- clever photography.
The only way to know, is to look for yourself, with your own eyes.
Use the Internet for research.
Find potential locations in your price range and make a list.
Get a map of the city in Thai and English and plot locations on the map.
Then hire a private car and driver for a few days.
Show the driver your map.
He'll be able to read the Thai locations, and off you go.

No need for appointments -- that's not Thai style -- just show up.
Most places will be happy to give you a tour.

The best care and driver service in Chiangmai is AOT Limo Service, located at the airport.
I use them often, but there are other taxis here, cheaper than AOT.
You can negotiate rates with the driver -- it is commonly done here.

By the way, if your driver is with you at lunch time, you're the one to pay for his meal.
Won't be much -- maybe 50 baht.

Moving on to the topic of assisted living.
Here is a web page about assisted living Chiangmai:
http://www.retire2thailand.com/retire2-assisted-living.php
That web site, in general, offers plenty of suggestions for retirement living here.

One location mentioned there is: Dok Kaew Gardens Senior Care Center.
It is a division of McKean Rehab Center hospital.
I have been there for a quick tour.
Dok Kaew Gardens is for elderly who need access to care, but not as much as a hospital.
I'm keeping it in mind if I get to that situation.
This may be exactly what you are looking for, so be sure to include it when doing your research.

But there is one problem with Dok Kaew Gardens: it is fairly isolated on an island in the river.
That is a lovely, "garden" setting, with lush, tropical trees all around, but that's all that's there.
So, if you want to go to a coffee shop, or buy a newspaper or some books, or simply go to a store for toothpaste and a candy bar, it's a journey.
I went there on a bicycle, but it was a long ride.
They likely have a shuttle van for residents, but, if you do ride a bicycle, it is a beautiful setting for that.
Web site: http://www.mckeanhosp.org/
For information about Dok Kaew Gardens, click at the bottom, left side, of the home page.

Now, if all this gets overwhelming, and you want a helping hand, there are several services here offering help for new expats.
But, be careful, some of those are merely real-estate rental and sales offices, offering help as a tactic for luring customers.
One service that does seem dedicated is Chiang Mai Friends Retirement Services.
I have met the owner, but I haven't needed to use her services.
She and her staff do speak very good English.
You may find it worthwhile to contact them.

They make hotel reservations for you here, will come to meet you at the airport, and will reserve a car and driver for you.
They can provide an English-speaking guide, too.
All for a fee, of course.
Here's their web site: http://www.retireinchiangmai.com/package.php
My reluctance with Chiang Mai Friends is the owner is very much into charity work, "save the earth", and all that, and she tries to encourage everyone else to follow her inclination.
Doesn't suit me, but shouldn't get in the way of her services.

And finally : All i do when at bkk is wandering from one mall to the other ,thus the problem of occupation is very crucial.What do you think ?

The solution to that is clear:
Your first project -- after you get settled in -- is to enroll in a Thai language school.
Trying to learn Thai will give you plenty to do ... for the rest of your life!

And, in the language classes, you'll make friends among other retired expats here.

By the way:forgive my poor english,i speak rather hebrew-israel

There is an Israeli restaurant here: Jerusalem Falafel.
I've eaten there once.
The restaurant staff there would certainly know if there is an expat groups of Israelis here, and could speak with you in Hebrew language, too.
Here's a web link for the restaurant: http://chanchao.fotopages.com/?entry=109708

I hope some of this is helpful to you, and to other retired men who are considering expat living in Thailand.