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Education in the Modern State

Complete sentences, phrases, and figurative speech

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Education in the Modern State

Postby David and Bui » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:34 pm

Friends,

Matichon Weekly this week has as usual an article on education. This week's article is titled, "ฝันที่เป็นจรง" which I would render as "Dreams Turned into Reality". Here are two paragraphs from the article which are thought-provoking.
___________________________________
การศึกษาจึงหมายถึงการเพิ่มคุณภาพของพลเมืองในฐานะที่เป็นปัจจัยการผลิต เพิ่มปริมาณของผู้เชี่ยวชาญสาขาต่างๆ เพิ่มปริมาณของแรงงานที่มีทักษะ ฝีมือ ฯลฯ

ผลประโยชน์ที่สองที่รัฐสมัยใหม่จำต้องบังคับให้เกิดขึ้นให้จงคือ การใช้การศึกษาสร้างจิตสำนึกแบบพลเมืองแทนจิตสำนึกของลูกที่ดินอันเป็นความสัมพันธ์เดิมในระบอบศักดินาเก่า สำหรับรัฐสมัยใหม่ พลเมืองต้องขึ้นต่อชาติมิใช่มูลนายในยุคต้นๆ ของการสร้างรัฐสมัยใหม่ พลังของการปลุกความรักชาติจึงเข้มข้นและยากจะบอกว่าคือกระบวนการล้างสมองหรือไม่

แต่โดยมากใช้คำว่าการกล่อมเกลาทางสังคม
___________________________________

Let's give some thought to rendering this into English. I would especially like some discussion around the phrase "ลูกที่ดิน". Thanks.
David in Houston
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Re: Education in the Modern State

Postby DonSena » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:20 pm

David and Bui wrote:Friends,

Matichon Weekly this week has as usual an article on education. This week's article is titled, "ฝันที่เป็นจรง" which I would render as "Dreams Turned into Reality". Here are two paragraphs from the article which are thought-provoking.
___________________________________
การศึกษาจึงหมายถึงการเพิ่มคุณภาพของพลเมืองในฐานะที่เป็นปัจจัยการผลิต เพิ่มปริมาณของผู้เชี่ยวชาญสาขาต่างๆ เพิ่มปริมาณของแรงงานที่มีทักษะ ฝีมือ ฯลฯ

ผลประโยชน์ที่สองที่รัฐสมัยใหม่จำต้องบังคับให้เกิดขึ้นให้จงคือ การใช้การศึกษาสร้างจิตสำนึกแบบพลเมืองแทนจิตสำนึกของลูกที่ดินอันเป็นความสัมพันธ์เดิมในระบอบศักดินาเก่า สำหรับรัฐสมัยใหม่ พลเมืองต้องขึ้นต่อชาติมิใช่มูลนายในยุคต้นๆ ของการสร้างรัฐสมัยใหม่ พลังของการปลุกความรักชาติจึงเข้มข้นและยากจะบอกว่าคือกระบวนการล้างสมองหรือไม่

แต่โดยมากใช้คำว่าการกล่อมเกลาทางสังคม

ศักดินา : Titles of dignity conferred by the Sovereign; formerly, they carried grants of land, but now they are nominal and honorary (source: Saint Gabriel’s Thai-English Dictionary, 1966)
___________________________________

Let's give some thought to rendering this into English. I would especially like some discussion around the phrase "ลูกที่ดิน". Thanks.


Education is thus defined as an increase in the quality of the citizen in terms of its capacity as a productive factor in increasing the number of people with expertise in a variety of fields and enlarging a workforce with skills, talents and other desirable assets.

The second positive benefit to which the modern state must commit itself lies in the application of education to instill the concept of “citizen” in lieu of “land-holder,” derived from the old Sovereign land-grant system [ศักดินา]. As for the modern nation-state, the notion of citizen must depend on national identity, rather than on proprietorship. In the beginning stages of building up the modern state, the energy devoted to instilling a sense of patriotism intensifies and it becomes hard to say one way or the other whether it’s [just] brainwashing.

[More] normally, however, we’ll use the phrase “social up-bringing.”
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Re: Education in the Modern State

Postby David and Bui » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:51 pm

Thank you, Don. That's a great translation.

I wonder whether “ลูกที่ดิน”, “มูลนาย”, "ระบอบศักดินา" are the equivalent to the "serf" or "vassal" and "lord" in the Western "feudal system". In other words, does “ลูกที่ดิน” mean someone who is attached to the land, rather than someone who owns small parcels of land?

I understand your interpretation that the author is drawing a contrast between older systems where a small land owner has loyalty primarily to a certain limited locality where as modern-day states require allegiance to a higher level body politic.

I do not know which the author means. In any event, in a larger sense, we can view world history as an ebb and flow of centrifugal forces and centripetal forces. Centripetal forces create nation states and empires out of tribes and principalities; examples include the creations of the Roman Empire, the British empire and its commonwealth, the unification of the German states, and the creation of the European Union. Centrifugal forces include the breakup of Yugoslavia, the disintegration of the Roman empire, and the dissolution of British India into Pakistan, Bangladesh, and India. In current times we see the break up of Somalia and the the upcoming vote in Scotland to create a new state.

We see remnants of these political forces in language as well. In Thailand the mandatory teaching of the central dialect of Thai in all schools is an attempt to retain the unified body of the Thai kingdom whereas the strong and persistent existence of local dialects in Thailand are testimony to the centrifugal forces that continue to bedevil unity.

The choice of words in the article further indicates this dichotomy. The use of the term "ล้างสมอง" (brainwashing) is a pejorative term when applied to a universal approach and uniform content of education. Those who believe that a uniform approach to education is beneficial to creating a unified nation tend to use the phrase “การกล่อมเกลาทางสังคม” (socialization).

What do you think?
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Re: Education in the Modern State

Postby DonSena » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:44 am

David and Bui wrote:Thank you, Don. That's a great translation.

I wonder whether “ลูกที่ดิน”, “มูลนาย”, "ระบอบศักดินา" are the equivalent to the "serf" or "vassal" and "lord" in the Western "feudal system". In other words, does “ลูกที่ดิน” mean someone who is attached to the land, rather than someone who owns small parcels of land?

I understand your interpretation that the author is drawing a contrast between older systems where a small land owner has loyalty primarily to a certain limited locality where as modern-day states require allegiance to a higher level body politic.

I do not know which the author means. In any event, in a larger sense, we can view world history as an ebb and flow of centrifugal forces and centripetal forces. Centripetal forces create nation states and empires out of tribes and principalities; examples include the creations of the Roman Empire, the British empire and its commonwealth, the unification of the German states, and the creation of the European Union. Centrifugal forces include the breakup of Yugoslavia, the disintegration of the Roman empire, and the dissolution of British India into Pakistan, Bangladesh, and India. In current times we see the break up of Somalia and the the upcoming vote in Scotland to create a new state.

We see remnants of these political forces in language as well. In Thailand the mandatory teaching of the central dialect of Thai in all schools is an attempt to retain the unified body of the Thai kingdom whereas the strong and persistent existence of local dialects in Thailand are testimony to the centrifugal forces that continue to bedevil unity.

The choice of words in the article further indicates this dichotomy. The use of the term "ล้างสมอง" (brainwashing) is a pejorative term when applied to a universal approach and uniform content of education. Those who believe that a uniform approach to education is beneficial to creating a unified nation tend to use the phrase “การกล่อมเกลาทางสังคม” (socialization).

What do you think?


You present a very interesting overview of historical patterns of integration and fragmentation of national entities, Dave.

What you've suggested for “ลูกที่ดิน”, “มูลนาย”, "ระบอบศักดินา" is entirely plausible.

I hadn't thought of "socialization" for การกล่อมเกลาทางสังคม when I rendered it as "social up-bringing," but "socialization" would seem to express the notion of การกล่อมเกลาทางสังคม more appropriately in context.

For the latter of these three, I had, from my ancient 60s-era sources,

ศักดินา : Titles of dignity conferred by the Sovereign; formerly, they carried grants of land, but now they are nominal and honorary (source: Saint Gabriel’s Thai-English Dictionary, 1966)

I inadvertently inserted this segment into the quoted text from your initial posting, you might not have seen it.
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