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หยอด vs เหยาะ

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Moderator: acloudmovingby

หยอด vs เหยาะ

Postby Naga » Sat May 06, 2017 6:42 am

เวลาผมกินบะหมี่ผมชอบหยอดน้ำปลา
เวลาผมกินบะหมี่ผมชอบเหยาะน้ำปลา

How does using หยอด vs เหยาะ change the meaning of the sentence.
Is one 'more correct' than the other?

Of course, my wife just told me both are wrong and to use ใส่

This is probably why after 9 years of trying to learn Thai, virtually everything I learn get contradicted by my wife. So here I am spinning my wheels again.

What's correct?
Signed,
Frustrated :?:
Naga
 
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Re: หยอด vs เหยาะ

Postby David and Bui » Sat May 06, 2017 7:02 am

Great question. Just to add to the discussion: From "คลังคำ" นววรรณ พันธุเมธา, page ๘๔๖

"หยอด ทำให้ตกลงเฉพาะที่ เช่น หยอดหัวกะทิ หยอดตา"

"เดาะ, เหยาะ หยดเติมลงแต่น้อย เช่น เดาะเกลือป่น, เหยาะน้ำปล่า"
David in Houston
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Re: หยอด vs เหยาะ

Postby Naga » Sat May 06, 2017 11:43 am

I looked up the book. Does คลังคำ address new Thai grammar. From what I can translate it addresses 'a new style of Thai language. I'm not quite sure what the book is about or who the intended readers are suppose to be.
Naga
 
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Re: หยอด vs เหยาะ

Postby Naga » Sat May 06, 2017 11:51 am

David and Bui wrote:Great question. Just to add to the discussion: From "คลังคำ" นววรรณ พันธุเมธา, page ๘๔๖

"หยอด ทำให้ตกลงเฉพาะที่ เช่น หยอดหัวกะทิ หยอดตา"

"เดาะ, เหยาะ หยดเติมลงแต่น้อย เช่น เดาะเกลือป่น, เหยาะน้ำปล่า"


The first is like 'drop' in eye drop; I'll put a few drops on soy sauce in my soup.

the second is to add little by little. English equivalent? Drizzle. Dab. Dob. I'll put dab of soy sauce in my soup.

So it's contextual. If I want to 'add' some soy sauce to my soup, then it's ใส่.

No right or wrong. Just different ways to express a similar action according to a more specific context. I got it. I think. lol
Naga
 
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Re: หยอด vs เหยาะ

Postby Tgeezer » Tue May 09, 2017 5:42 am

I think that your wife is correct. หยาด หยอด หยด เหยาะ เดาะ are a confusion of verbs being used as nouns and vice versa and normal people know that adding นำ้ปลา to a bowl of noodles doesn't need fancy words.
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Re: หยอด vs เหยาะ

Postby Alan » Tue May 09, 2017 4:51 pm

Actually, these words could be useful for me. I don't eat heavily spiced foods. Same with coffee - I drink it black, but "weak". I'm definitely a ฝรั่งจืดชืด lol.

I'm wondering if I can say: "In preparing my Somtam, just a "pinch/shake/shot" of salt and chili powder would be sufficient, no more than that". (เดาะ)

Or, with coffee - "It's a bit strong, can you add just a spritz/sprinkle of hot water to dilute it?" (เหยาะ).

I'm trying to use these as nouns, almost like a unit of measure. "A pinch" (เดาะ), "A spritz/a sprinkle" (เหยาะ).

Would I still use ใส่? ใส่แค่เดาะเดียว/เดาะหนึ่ง? or เดาะนิดๆก็พอ? Is เดาะ only for powders/grains and เหยาะ for liquids like น้ำส้มสายชู?

เหยาะ seems to require a different action than หยอด. It seems like when you เหยาะ, you kind of flick it to get that little amount out. But when you หยอด you carefully "administer" one drop at a time? We need the video! lol....
Alan
 
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Re: หยอด vs เหยาะ

Postby David and Bui » Wed May 10, 2017 1:42 am

Thank you, Alan.

Here is a sample sentence from Lexitron:

"เธอเดาะเกลือป่นลงพอควรให้รสหวานเค็มตัดกันพอดิบพอดี"
She added a bit of salt little by little to the mix to get just the right balance of sweetness and saltiness.

Do you agree with the translation? Thanks.
David in Houston
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Re: หยอด vs เหยาะ

Postby Alan » Wed May 10, 2017 10:53 am

Looks good, David. Thank you for pulling that Lex'tron example. In the sentence it's an action, not an amount. I'd like to use it as an amount, a noun, like "give me one เดาะ of chili powder, but no more than that". I would guess that I could achieve pretty close to the same effect by saying something like "อย่าใส่เยอะนะ ...เดาะพริกป่นนิ๊ดดดด.....เดียว...มันเผ็ดนะเนี่ย" and then hopefully the ส้มตำ maker would go easy on the chili powder. Or maybe I could just say "...and please go easy on the chili powder" ...พริกป่นเบาๆนะฮะ ขอบคุณ...

As for "Could you give me just spritz or two of hot water in the coffee" - maybe I could use it (the word เหยาะ) as a verb and a noun in the same sentence....? I'll have to try this: "The coffee's good but kinda strong...Can I just a get a shot or two of hot water in there" กาแฟ อร่อยนะ แต่เข้มหน่อย (ขอ)เหยาะน้ำร้อน(ใส่)หน่อย ...สักเหยาะสองเหยาะก็พอ..." Anyway, I'll give it a try and รายงานตัว....
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Re: หยอด vs เหยาะ

Postby Tgeezer » Fri May 12, 2017 4:03 am

David and Bui wrote:Thank you, Alan.

Here is a sample sentence from Lexitron:

"เธอเดาะเกลือป่นลงพอควรให้รสหวานเค็มตัดกันพอดิบพอดี"
She added a bit of salt little by little to the mix to get just the right balance of sweetness and saltiness.

Do you agree with the translation? Thanks.

I know that you won't agree David but I don't agree with the translation because there is no mention of what the salt is being added to.
The sentence is subject- เธอ verb-เดาะ object เกลือป่น - averb ลง adjective พอควร .
Which I must say is terrible but typical of Thai.

เธอเดาะ(ลง)เกลือป่นพอควร She/you have "added-(downwards)' 'just enough-salt'.
In the 2525 RID เดาะ is to bounce and only in spoken language does it mean to 'add' which is I suppose where ลง comes from. eg. จืดไปเดาะเกลือลงไปหน่อย
Incidentally what does Lecitron have for ตัดกัน ? Longdoo has entries for Lexitron but doesn't have ตัดกัน it also seems to have shifted meaning somewhat since 2525!
For Alan. I think that you are adventurous in making nouns from verbs and it probably works but why not just say ใส่นิดเดียว rather than look for expressions like just a drop?
incidentally I look forward to your report of the reaction you get, I know that I would get short shrift from my interlocutor!
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Re: หยอด vs เหยาะ

Postby Alan » Sat May 13, 2017 4:01 am

I think you're right, TGZ: With a gesture, pointing to what level on the coffee cup I want the hot water added, "ใส่นิดเดียว" and maybe adding "ถึงนี้" or "ประมาณนี้" could work.

The problem is that in practice, since the coffee is delivered in a cup that's about 3/4 full, the barista often misses the mark and pours too much water in. They don't pour just a small spritz at a time and then look to me for confirmation. It's all in one fell swoop. I've offered to pour the water in myself. It can be done but there are disadvantages to that approach.

I vetted the use of "เหยาะ" with a native Thai speaker and came up with this:

"เหยาะ" as a noun: "น้องๆ กาแฟมันเข้มไปหน่อย รบกวนใส่น้ำร้อนสักเหยาะนะ" Using เหยาะ as a verb "รบกวนเหยาะน้ำร้อนอีกหน่อยหนึ่ง" This is ภาษาพูด of course so it's doesn't abide any strict usage rules.

Haven't tried it in the field yet, but we'll see! I'm interested to see if I use "เหยาะ" will the barista use a container that's more appropriate for เหยาะ'ing than for pouring. Or, will she just pour using the same kettle-thing in much more graduated way until I say "enough"...Or neither :cry:

What I like about instructing the barista to "เหยาะ" is that the hot water is gradually added in a series of smaller quantities, with a brief pause between each "เหยาะ". During that series of เหยาะ's I can watch how high the water is getting and can say "That's enough" at any time at the precise level that I want. Almost no risk of the sudden deluge and overfill that I have encountered with ใส่น้ำร้อนนิดเดียว - which is just too open ended/ambiguous.

Also, I like the idea of using เหยาะ because it "informs" the listener about me, the speaker - my mood, my personality, how adept at the language I might be and other subtle things. I sometimes like to move beyond the more literal expression and เล่นคำบ้านๆ a bit...using the clever sounding, pithy, funky expressions that the Thai native speakers use. It shows that I know the "local color", and can portray me (or any speaker) as - cool, funny, clever, dialed-in etc. (depending on which expression I am using).
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