thai-language.comInternet resource
for the Thai language
Lookup:
» more options here
Browse

F.A.Q. Check out the list of frequently asked questions for a quick answer to your inquiry

e-mail the author
guestbook
site settings
site news
bulk lookup
Bangkok
Thanks for your

recent donations!

Narisa N. $+++!
John A. $+++!
Paul S. $100!
Mike A. $100!
Eric B. $100!
John Karl L. $100!
Don S. $100!
John S. $100!
Peter B. $100!
Ingo B $50
Peter d C $50
Hans G $50
Alan M. $50
Rod S. $50
Wolfgang W. $50
Bill O. $70
Ravinder S. $20
Chris S. $15
Jose D-C $20
Steven P. $20
Daniel W. $75
Rudolf M. $30
David R. $50
Judith W. $50
Roger C. $50
Steve D. $50
Sean F. $50
Paul G. B. $50
xsinventory $20
Nigel A. $15
Michael B. $20
Otto S. $20
Damien G. $12
Simon G. $5
Lindsay D. $25
David S. $25
Laurent L. $40
Peter van G. $10
Graham S. $10
Peter N. $30
James A. $10
Dmitry I. $10
Edward R. $50
Roderick S. $30
Mason S. $5
Henning E. $20
John F. $20
Daniel F. $10
Armand H. $20
Daniel S. $20
James McD. $20
Shane McC. $10
Roberto P. $50
Derrell P. $20
Trevor O. $30
Patrick H. $25
Rick @SS $15
Gene H. $10
Aye A. M. $33
S. Cummings $25
Will F. $20
Get e-mail

Sign-up to join our mail­ing list. You'll receive e­mail notification when this site is updated. Your privacy is guaran­teed; this list is not sold, shared, or used for any other purpose. Click here for more infor­mation.

To unsubscribe, click here.

Do not judge...

Given names, nicknames, boxing monikers, tattoos

Moderator: acloudmovingby

Do not judge...

Postby gforsi » Mon May 15, 2017 4:32 pm

How to translate the following sentence or proverb

"Don’t judge others based on appearances" or "Do not judge others by their appearances" or however u might formulate it.

I guess this proverb thas it all, does it?

ผ้าขี้ริ้วห่อทอง

or what about this translation?

อย่าตัดสินคนอื่นจากภายนอก
gforsi
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:08 am

Re: Do not judge...

Postby David and Bui » Mon May 15, 2017 11:03 pm

Thank you for the post, Gforsi.

[For the proverb referenced above, see http://www.thai-language.com/id/210573 ]
David in Houston
David and Bui
 
Posts: 6038
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Do not judge...

Postby Toffeeman » Wed May 17, 2017 3:56 pm

I'm wondering if ผ้าขี้ริ้วห่อทอง has a narrower meaning than 'don't judge a book by its cover'

When talking with a Thai about this they immediately mentioned somebody who we both know who is quite well off but dresses like a poor person. So is it a more literal meaning of 'gold wrapped in rags' rather than an expression meaning anything that is different from outward appearance?
Toffeeman
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 10:14 am
Location: Phuket

Re: Do not judge...

Postby David and Bui » Thu May 18, 2017 12:19 am

From http://www.suphasitthai.com/%E0%B8%9C%E ... D%E0%B8%87

"ผ้าขี้ริ้วห่อทอง
สํานวนสุภาษิตนี้ หมายถึงผู้ที่มีฐานะร่ำรวย แต่ทำตัวสมถะหรือแต่งตัวซ่อมซ่อ

ที่มาของสํานวน เปรียบเปรยถึงหากเราเห็นผ้าขี้ริ้วเราก็จะรู้สึกว่าสกปรกหรือไม่น่าพิสมัย แต่หารู้ไม่ว่าข้างในผ้าขี้ริ้วนั้นมีของมีค่าก็คือทองอยู่ข้างใน"

"Origin of the phrase: a metaphor saying that if we see see a rag we feel as if it is dirty or unattractive, but we do not know whether inside the rag is something of great value or whether there is gold inside."

The English phrase "Don't judge a book by its cover" means "you shouldn't prejudge the worth or value of something, by its outward appearance alone".

Seems to me that the metaphorical meaning of the Thai and English phrases are similar. Now, if you want to say that the Thai phrase can also be used in a literal sense, I would say that that is certainly true, as is true for many sayings, idioms, and metaphors.

Here is another explanation:

"ผ้าขี้ริ้วห่อทอง หมายถึง คนมั่งมีแต่แต่งตัวซอมซ่อ
ขยายความสุภาษิตสำนวนไทยคำว่า ผ้าขี้ริ้วห่อทอง นิยมใช้เรียกคนที่ชอบทำตัวยากจน ซอมซ่อ หรือโลว์โปรไฟล์ แต่ความเป็นจริงแล้วเป็นคนร่ำรวย มีฐานะดี ซึ่งตรงกับคำไทยที่มักพูดว่าอย่ามองคนเพียงแค่การแต่งตัว คนที่แต่งตัวดูดี ภูมิฐาน ความจริงแล้วอาจจะแค่ข้างนอกสุกใส ข้างในเป็นโพลงก็ได้ หมายถึงดูดีแค่ภายนอกเท่านั้น"

http://www.xn--12cg1cxchd0a2gzc1c5d5a.n ... %E0%B8%87/
David in Houston
David and Bui
 
Posts: 6038
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Do not judge...

Postby David and Bui » Thu May 18, 2017 1:44 am

How about "Appearances can be deceiving"?
David in Houston
David and Bui
 
Posts: 6038
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Do not judge...

Postby Tgeezer » Fri May 19, 2017 6:46 am

gforsi wrote:How to translate the following sentence or proverb

"Don’t judge others based on appearances" or "Do not judge others by their appearances" or however u might formulate it.

I guess this proverb thas it all, does it?

ผ้าขี้ริ้วห่อทอง

or what about this translation?

อย่าตัดสินคนอื่นจากภายนอก

Try Google; อย่าตัดสินคนโดยการปรากฏตัวของเขา
I tend to avoid direct substitution because I have an old dictionary and ตัดสิน ก. ลงความเห็นขี่ขาด doesn't look like it can take an object (intransitive) so would add a preposition and change the form of the noun to make a noun phrase.
อย่าตัดสินตามปรากฏการณ์ของคนอื่น
I suppose โดย could do the job as well as ตาม but I don't think จาก unless I read it as 'from'.

ผ้าขี้ริ้วห่อทอง actually says; A grubby cloth wrapping gold, and describes a person who is better than they appear, the person's appearance is the grubby cloth and the gold is the good within.
edit: grubby a. Of, infested with, grubs; dirty, grimy, slovenly.
คับที่อยู่ได้คับใจอยู่ยาก
Tgeezer
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:41 am

Re: Do not judge...

Postby Alan » Sat May 20, 2017 3:07 am

Just wanted to mention that "ซอมซ่อ" is mis-spelled in the first occurrence as "ซ่อมซ่อ" - and then spelled correctly in the second citing as "ซอมซ่อ". I normally don't nit-pick over typos - especially since I have a พรสวรรค์ of authoring a few of them myself... :( But I just want to make sure that non-native speakers pick it up right, and nail it - when its time to say it.

I agree with Toffeeman: His comment that ผ้าขี้ริ้วห่อทอง has a "narrower" meaning than "don't judge someone by their outer appearance" - seems correct.

If I could put it another way: ผ้าขี้ริ้วห่อทอง is one example, or one instantiation of why we shouldn't judge people by their outward appearance, but it does not look to me like it translates to "don't judge a person by their outward appearance". In fact, both phrases can co-exist in a single coherent sentence, each phrase contributing its own separate and distinct meaning.

For example: "You shouldn't judge someone from their outer appearance because, for all you know, it might be a case of gold wrapped in rags". I would sometimes translate ผ้าขี้ริ้วห่อทอง as "stealth wealth".

Another Thai idiom that doesn't mean "you should not judge a book by its cover" but is an instantiation of it is "ปากหวานก้นเปรี้ยว" "[she's] a sweet talker, but she's mean!"

"หน้าไหว้หลังหลอก" is another one.

These idioms don't translate to "don't judge people by their outward appearances" but they imply that you shouldn't do so.

If I needed to say to someone, "Don't judge me by my appearance", I would not say "ผ้าขี้ริ้วห่อทอง"....I think the person I said this to might just be confused as to why I said it or what I meant.

As was mentioned earlier, อย่าตัดสินคนจากภายนอก might work. I'm not sure. I've heard native Thai speakers say "อย่าตัดสิน/ไม่ควรตัดสินคนจากเสื้อผ้านห้าผม" or อย่าตัดสินคนจากเปลือกนอก

You can also reverse the phrase if you want to razz your well-dressed friend: ทองห่อผ้าขี้ริ้ว: If a friend is dressed well for an event, I might แหย่เล่นๆว่า "You look great tonight! You've wrapped your raggedy/mangy/decrepit self in gold robes".

I think foreigners living amongst Thais would find utility in memorizing a polite and helpful version of this phrase, as it serves as guidance to Thais to try to see beyond the outer indicia and get to know foreigners or "farangs" as individuals. We all would do well to try to practice such behavior....เอวางด้วยประการฉะนี้แหละ....

At the end of the day, what is the best way to say, "Please don't/you shouldn't judge [me] from outward appearances". ? Or, which, if any, of the above might be serviceable? I would prefer to yield to the opinion of a skilled native Thai speaker for the answer.
Alan
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:02 am

Re: Do not judge...

Postby Tgeezer » Sun May 21, 2017 6:46 am

Alan wrote:
At the end of the day, what is the best way to say, "Please don't/you shouldn't judge [me] from outward appearances". ? Or, which, if any, of the above might be serviceable? I would prefer to yield to the opinion of a skilled native Thai speaker for the answer.

That is a little unfair, I dare to reply on more simple points than a "skilled native speaker" might address.
I agree with you Alan, ผ้าขี้ริ้วห่อทอง doesn't apply because it is defined as a noun phrase, which I thinks forces us to ask about its use.
From its definition I assume that it is how you might describe and call someone.

The fact that ผ้าขี้รื้วห่อทอง exist in society might well mean that one only has to utter the words ผ้าขี้ริ้วห่อทอง to invoke "Don't judge a book by its cover" but I doubt it.


Don't judge a book by its cover is apparently a recent saying (1944) and has been translated into Thai อย่าต้ดสินหนังสือโดยปก I think, so maybe the Thai expression which we seek.
คับที่อยู่ได้คับใจอยู่ยาก
Tgeezer
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:41 am

Re: Do not judge...

Postby Alan » Mon May 22, 2017 2:07 am

Hi TGZ,

You make a valid point. It's quite plausible that a non-native Thai speaker could find a spot-on Thai translation of "Don't judge a book by its cover". You have done so by pointing out that this phrase is translated literally, word for word, into Thai.
Alan
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:02 am


Return to Basic Translation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 6 guests

Copyright © 2017 thai-language.com. Portions copyright © by original authors, rights reserved, used by permission; Portions 17 USC §107.