ศาลาชุมนุม

[insayt]

Hi!

Here at TL, I know that you always put out the origin of words, like Pali, Sanskrit and Khmer. One clame that เจริญ is a khmer word, but her at TL I cannot se that is from Khmer, so can you help me with this to clarify!

Peter

[David and Bui]

Peter,

Actually, we do not do etymology here. The only origins we show are 1. "loanwords" which are foreign words taken into Thai using Thai orthography, and 2. where the Royal Institute Dictionary shows word origin as part of its definition.

I sure wish that we did have an etymoloical dictionary of Thai. If you know of one, please let us all know.

Thanks.

Glenn has defined a "loanwords" as "a word from a foreign language which is borrowed into the native language, for example, English words which are adopted into Thai, with their own approximate Thai spellings. Meanings can also become derivative in the native language as loanwords take on a life of their own."

[insayt]

Peter,

Actually, we do not do etymology here. The only origins we show are 1. "loanwords" which are foreign words taken into Thai using Thai orthography, and 2. where the Royal Institute Dictionary shows word origin as part of its definition.

I sure wish that we did have an etymoloical dictionary of Thai. If you know of one, please let us all know.

Thanks.

Glenn has defined a "loanwords" as "a word from a foreign language which is borrowed into the native language, for example, English words which are adopted into Thai, with their own approximate Thai spellings. Meanings can also become derivative in the native language as loanwords take on a life of their own."

Thank you David, maybe I put it wrong, I mean for example a common word สวัสดี from Sanskrit I can se here its origin in TL, and other words sush as ถนน from Khmer, and when I se เจริญ I don't se that it has any connection to the Khmer language so I presume it is a Thai word.

Peter

[Pirin]

In the grammar book of พระยาอุปกิตศิลปสาร, เจริญ is a Khmer word, but RID (2011) doesn't show that information in the definition of the word เจริญ.

Likewise, if you look at the word เชิญ and อัญเชิญ in RID (2011), you might see similar things.

RID (2011):
เชิญ ก. แสดงความปรารถนาเพื่อขอให้ทำอย่างใดอย่างหนึ่งด้วยความเคารพหรืออ่อนน้อม เช่น เชิญเทวดา เชิญมาเป็นเกียรติในพิธีมงคลสมรส; ถือ อุ้ม ชู หรือนำไปเป็นต้นด้วยความเคารพ เช่น เชิญพระแสง เชิญพระพุทธรูป เชิญธง; กล่าวอนุญาตให้ทำอย่างใดอย่างหนึ่งด้วยความสุภาพหรืออ่อนน้อม เช่น เชิญเถิด เชิญครับ เชิญตามสบาย.
http://www.thai-language.com/id/4805

อัญเชิญ ก. เชิญด้วยความเคารพนับถือ เช่น อัญเชิญพระพุทธรูปไปประดิษฐานในอุโบสถ. (ข. อฺญเชิญ).

In the grammar book of พระยาอุปกิตศิลปสาร, it is said that both เชิญ and อัญเชิญ are originally Khmer. On the other hand, RID doesn't add that detail in the definition of เชิญ, but does say that อัญเชิญ is originally Khmer.

[David and Bui]

Khun Pirin,

Is there within the Thai academic literature an etymological dictionary which shows comprehensive origins of words within the Thai language?

[Pirin]

You might be able to guess that (because of my background in the area where the members of the community hardly read and write,) I harly used dictionaries when I started to study new languages. I bought a copy of พจนานุกรมราชบัณฑิตยสถาน and the book หลักภาษาไทย written by พระยาอุปกิตศิลปสาร after I had participated in the discussion in this forum of yours. This is to say that once I think of a dictonary that shows us the origin of some particular words, only RID comes up in mind.

Now you might also see that RID still needs to be edited later.

Anyway, in a course of Thai language at the secondary school, the students are taught (by our Thai language teacher) what พระยาอุปกิตศิลปสาร says in his book of หลักภาษาไทย:
".....ในภาษาไทยนั้น ตัวสะกดควรเป็นตามหลักคือ
กก ก สะกด
กง ง สะกด
กด ด สะกด
กน น สะกด
กบ บ สะกด
กม ม สะกด
เกย ย สะกด
เกอว ว สะกด
ที่มีแตกต่างออกไปบ้าง ก็มักจะเป็นคำโบราณหรือมาจากภาษาเขมร....."

Lots of examples (and some related explanation) are given in the book.

[Richard Wordingham]

Is there within the Thai academic literature an etymological dictionary which shows comprehensive origins of words within the Thai language?

If there were, it would be recent. It seems that one of the best sources for native vocabulary is still Li Fang Kuei's Handbook of Comparative Tai.

With Khmer loans, there is the problem that Khmer has also borrowed from Thai.