thai-language.comInternet resource
for the Thai language
Lookup:
» more options here
Browse

F.A.Q. Check out the list of frequently asked questions for a quick answer to your inquiry

e-mail the author
guestbook
site settings
site news
bulk lookup
Bangkok
Thanks for your

recent donations!

Narisa N. $+++!
John A. $+++!
Paul S. $100!
Mike A. $100!
Eric B. $100!
John Karl L. $100!
Don S. $100!
John S. $100!
Peter B. $100!
Ingo B $50
Peter d C $50
Hans G $50
Alan M. $50
Rod S. $50
Wolfgang W. $50
Bill O. $70
Ravinder S. $20
Chris S. $15
Jose D-C $20
Steven P. $20
Daniel W. $75
Rudolf M. $30
David R. $50
Judith W. $50
Roger C. $50
Steve D. $50
Sean F. $50
Paul G. B. $50
xsinventory $20
Nigel A. $15
Michael B. $20
Otto S. $20
Damien G. $12
Simon G. $5
Lindsay D. $25
David S. $25
Laurent L. $40
Peter van G. $10
Graham S. $10
Peter N. $30
James A. $10
Dmitry I. $10
Edward R. $50
Roderick S. $30
Mason S. $5
Henning E. $20
John F. $20
Daniel F. $10
Armand H. $20
Daniel S. $20
James McD. $20
Shane McC. $10
Roberto P. $50
Derrell P. $20
Trevor O. $30
Patrick H. $25
Rick @SS $15
Gene H. $10
Aye A. M. $33
S. Cummings $25
Will F. $20
Get e-mail

Sign-up to join our mail­ing list. You'll receive e­mail notification when this site is updated. Your privacy is guaran­teed; this list is not sold, shared, or used for any other purpose. Click here for more infor­mation.

To unsubscribe, click here.

when does someone cease being a P'

Religion, customs, politics, film, music, television

Moderator: acloudmovingby

when does someone cease being a P'

Postby jariya76 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:12 am

I am wondering what the correct way is for me to address myself with my language partners. With the woman who is 12 years younger than me, I feel I should be P'Julie. The guy who is 27 years younger than me just calls me Julie, which I think is weird. Shouldn't he call me something like คุณ Julie or ครู Julie? And then I would call myself ฉัน or ครู. I'm not looking to elevate my status -I couldn't care less about that really, but I'm trying to train myself to be able to call myself different things with different people. Thais do it so effortlessly and I have only called myself Julie or Jariya or P' in the past. Now I am Aunt to some, teacher to some, and I want to practice using the right terms. I haven't been in Thailand for 34 years. Do people not care about this anymore?
jariya76
 
Posts: 499
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:31 pm

Re: when does someone cease being a P'

Postby Peter4 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:51 pm

jariya76 wrote:I am wondering what the correct way is for me to address myself ... [how to] call myself different things with different people.

The key element in that question is how you refer to yourself in conversation.
Instead of wondering about all the different ways, I use a safe and simple approach with consistent understanding.

In Thai culture the hierarchy rules are very complex.
Age is a large part, but only one part.
The other rules for who is superior to the other are very subtle.
I don't even try to figure it all out; too many chances for confusion and embarrassment on all sides.

A simple ผม (I, me, myself for men), or ฉัน (for females), will always be understood, and is always polite, for adult foreigners.
I've been using ผม, with never a problem, while I see other farangs stumbling around and causing all sorts of confusion, trying to use the language of Thai social hierarchy.
Peter4
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:59 pm

Re: when does someone cease being a P'

Postby John » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:08 am

I was recently conversing with a Thai man, 20 years younger than me, who used "ฉัน" in casual conversation when referring to himself and when teaching me phrases referring to myself. Is "ฉัน" appropriate and common for males to use when conversing with friends?
John (จอห์น)
User avatar
John
 
Posts: 728
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Rescue, CA USA

Re: when does someone cease being a P'

Postby jariya76 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:16 am

Yes, but guys always have it easier. ผม works in almost every situation. The reality is that for women, pronoun or title choice is much more complex. I suppose I could use ฉัน for everything but once there is another relationship established with that person ฉัน sounds weird. When I was in high school in Thailand I was ฉัน, หนู, Jariya, or พี่, sometimes with กู, or ข้า thrown in for fun depending on who I was talking to. Now that I'm older I have gotten rid of the หนู, thank goodness, but I've had to add แม่, ย่า, ยาย, ป้า, and น้า. I'm not nearly fluent enough to make the transition smoothly when I'm in a mixed group. And I don't even want to get into all the trouble I have remembering what to say for "you"!!! :shock: Talk about a brain workout....

And yes, John, I've heard ฉัน used by males, too. Has this always been common or is it a recent phenomenon?
jariya76
 
Posts: 499
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:31 pm

Re: when does someone cease being a P'

Postby Thomas » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:47 am

jariya76 wrote:And yes, John, I've heard ฉัน used by males, too. Has this always been common or is it a recent phenomenon?


Being male I've to admit that I learned ฉัน first before learning ผม. It was used initially only to refer to myself within relatives. My interpretation, now, is that ผม is the more neutral (in the sense that it can used in any situation) but ฉัน is also nice/nicer (?) while speaking with friends and relatives.

Btw, when you used/are using ดิฉัน? I think it is not in the list of the terms used for referring to yourself.
There are three kinds of people: Those who can count and those who cannot.
User avatar
Thomas
 
Posts: 1913
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:00 am
Location: กรุงบอนไซ

Re: when does someone cease being a P'

Postby Nan » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:17 am

Julie,

May I ask you some questions? Do you look like Thai or westerner? Where did your conversation with your language partners take place? If you look like westener and the conversation took place outside Thailand or via online, I don't think any Thais in any age would call you พี่ or คุณ, unless you started addressing your language partners น้อง or คุณ first, or calling yourself "พี่" first.

You mentioned that why don't they call you "ครู Julie", are you their teacher? If that is the case, you should call yourself "ครู" first, so that your students wouldn't feel awkward to call you "ครู Julie" in return. That's the trick. ;)

Thai people still care about this within Thai society. If you want to practice how to call yourself in which situation, please ask. There is no fix rules for that, mostly, it depends on circumstance. You might sometimes hear the older one calling the younger one "พี่" too.
Nan
 
Posts: 3018
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Bangkok

Re: when does someone cease being a P'

Postby jariya76 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:27 am

Well I definitely am a pale faced Westerner. The conversations are in person and I think you've answered my question. The way I first address myself is the way that I will be addressed. I asked the woman if she would mind calling me P' because we have kids the same age and are teaching each other. (She helps me with Thai and I help her with English) I started calling myself Julie with the young guy just because I felt so weird calling myself anything else, so that's what he calls me. We also are language partners so we both are teachers really. My Thai friends who have kids his age (25) sometimes tell them to refer to me as ป้า which really makes me feel old, but what can I do? I am. Thanks for the tip.
jariya76
 
Posts: 499
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:31 pm

Re: when does someone cease being a P'

Postby JingJo Thames » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:25 pm

Love this topic. Quite possibly my favorite. ^_^

I do find it interesting that a man much younger than you referred to himself as ฉัน. My first guess is that it has to do with you being a Westerner. They often assume different (more simplified?) rules for pronoun usage, I have found. I almost never use ฉัน (as a younger male), but do use my Thai nickname in situations where I want to sound/be more neutral.

Thanks to พี่นัน for reminding us all that it is totally fluid! There are no fast rules; just the relationships between people...

My Thai teacher and I have a weird thing where she prefers to be called ครู but I just always feel I should call her อาจารย์ because she is teaching as a professor at a graduate institution. So I waffle, weighted towards my own preference of อาจารย์ ("preference" here means "ingrained habit" more than my likes or dislikes). She says she prefers ครู because it speaks to her actual profession and passion - which the more general อาจารย์ leaves potentially open (she made the reference to some หมอดู or pastors who are called อาจารย์). :roll:

โจ้
โจ้

bir dil asla yeterli değildir ~ one language is never enough
JingJo Thames
 
Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Laguna Niguel, CA

Re: when does someone cease being a P'

Postby piper » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:55 am

JingJo Thames wrote:Love this topic. Quite possibly my favorite. ^_^

I do find it interesting that a man much younger than you referred to himself as ฉัน. My first guess is that it has to do with you being a Westerner. They often assume different (more simplified?) rules for pronoun usage, I have found. I almost never use ฉัน (as a younger male), but do use my Thai nickname in situations where I want to sound/be more neutral.


To me it sounds like if you refer to a child in an official way. What for? If you do not much care about showing your status then you shouldn't pay much attention to it. IMHO
piper
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:48 am

Re: when does someone cease being a P'

Postby JingJo Thames » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:48 pm

How do you mean, piper?
โจ้

bir dil asla yeterli değildir ~ one language is never enough
JingJo Thames
 
Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:00 am
Location: Laguna Niguel, CA


Return to Culture and Current Events

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
Copyright © 2021 thai-language.com. Portions copyright © by original authors, rights reserved, used by permission; Portions 17 USC §107.